Welcome back to another edition of dinner with Ignacy. The food is arriving, and Ignacy is on a roll talking about creating an industry in the wake of the fall of communism. Today – creating a user base through conventions.
DTD: Well, Poland is one of the top countries now for board games. I don’t know… Does Poland beat Germany at this point…?
IT: Not yet, but we are very close.
DTD: But very close.
IT: When I compare the print runs between… because, you know, we do Detective in Germany, in Poland, and Spain.
DTD: Of course.
IT: So, I know that our print runs are very, very solid and we are top three in Europe. And it started very late, but very intense, like when it exploded. And the one thing that I also did that had a lot, and I strongly recommend to all other countries to do it. I found a website of Bruno Faidutti – he had a blog back then. And his blog was called The Ideal Game Library. He was publishing reviews of the board games.
DTD: OK.
Bruno Faidutti is the designer behind such classics as Mystery of the Abbey, Mission Red Planet and Queen’s Necklace. Interestingly, Faidutti is also one of the world’s leading experts on Unicorns. And now you know…
IT: So, I was learning about the games from him. And one day he posted a report from his own convention. Now we know it as Bruno Faidutti’s Gathering of Friends. Back then, it was just a convention. So, I saw the pictures, and I read the report. It said, “Bruno Faidutti invited his friends and played board games.” I said, “I can do it.”
DTD: “I can do that!” [laughs]
Several successful game designers have for years had small yearly get togethers with their friends and colleagues, and sometimes these turn into conventions of some note. The two most famous ones are The Gathering of Friends, originally started by Ticket to Ride designer Alan R Moon, and Bruno Faidutti’s aforementioned convention. Bruno famously takes over a small town in France, and people just play games, eat nice food, and drink good wine.
IT: So, I posted, so I posted on the Polish forum that I’m starting this new initiative. “Hey, guys. Let’s meet face to face. There’s, like, 50 of us in Poland, so we can meet.” I rented a space, and invited them. 20 people, 20 people came.
DTD: Twenty?
IT: Twenty. Each of them came with their own board game. because each of us back then had one board game in the collection, like…
DTD: “Look what I imported.”
IT: Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] So, we had these 20 or 30 games.
DTD: Wow.
IT: Almost like a private meeting, but it was like for the first time, board gamers in Poland met in one place. We played the whole weekend. And everyone said, “Ignacy, we meet again, right?” And I said, “Yes, yes, yes. We meet again. We meet again.”
DTD: Was that Portal Con One?
Portal does have it’s own convention, PortalCon which started around 2006. PortalCon 2024 occurred in early January, and had to cap its attendance at 1000 people.
IT: That was Pionek 1. Pawn. I called it “pawn”, Pionek. And I did it and I said, “Yes. We meet in three months, in one quarter.” For the next convention, and I’m not making it up, it’s really true… The next edition, 40 people. So exactly twice as much. We play board games. Everybody brings their own board game. We have a great time. “Ignacy, next time…?” “Yes. In one quarter we meet.” And really, really – next time 80 people. Once again exactly twice as much.
Pionek is the Polish word for “pawn”. Pionek is still happening in Ignacy’s home town of Gliwice, Poland.
DTD: Wow.
IT: And the next time, 120 people. And for this 4th convention… This is a convention, now it is a convention. 120 people playing those games.
The waiter sneakily dropped off lots of food. 80% for me, and a smattering of potatoes for my Slavic friend.
DTD: Oh yeah, thank you. Thank you very much.
Waiter: My pleasure.
IT: But the thing that I achieved at this Convention was creating the whole formula how to create the board game convention. And I got a couple of hacks. So I was… So, I was doing the posters on the city that were saying free entrance – So free badge.
IT: Discover…
DTD: OK.
DTD: But you were putting this just out in the city anywhere?
IT: Yeah, yeah.
DTD: “free beer” [laughs]
I have discovered that game designers, and gamers in general, respond very favorably to free food and drink. This is the secret to how I keep finding designers willing to sit with me during hours long interviews. I feed them.
IT: So, free entrance and my tagline was very smart, because I was saying “Discover games from the whole world”. because I got the German games, I got French games. So I could use “International Games”. We were like, “You see that, You see that?”
DTD: You had two or three of them.
IT: Yeah, yeah. But please come. Everybody was coming. And this created the whole formula of the conventions in Poland for the upcoming years.
DTD: Wow.
IT: We had to have it free because nobody knows what board games are. So, if this is not a free entry, they will not pay money to, you know, do something they do not know. So make it for free.
DTD: OK.
Sounds like events I hold at my house. Free food, free library, lots of game playing. Although less Polish.
IT: So, make it for the free, and have a library of the games, because people don’t have games at home.
DTD: Right.
IT: So have them… so that they can use it as a library. And be polite and teach the games. But don’t be… You know, “We play, you don’t, don’t.” If we saw new players coming to this Convention, I was approaching them. “Hey, would you play the board games? No? We can teach you.”
DTD: “Let me tell you about board games…”.
IT: And it exploded.
DTD: So, were you just paying for all of this? Did it make money at all?
IT: I… no, no. I wasn’t making any money. But I had the system, and I convinced… In Poland we have a… In all the cities we have an institution that is called “House of culture”.
DTD: OK
IT: Like a building that you can do arts, school, music. Like for the kids.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: So, I went to the head of the of this operation in my city, and said, “I can do an event that is cultural. I will teach board games. I’m a young person. I will do it for free.
Ignacy seems to often feel that young people can get away with doing things for free. I remember being much lazier as a “young person”. You know, back in the dark ages.
DTD: It’s international. [laughs]
IT: Exactly. And all I want is a room for the weekend, and I will do everything for free. I will do it myself. You will… you, as a as a head of this institution, you will be able to be proud that you did something. You can tell your bosses that you did it. I don’t care. I will do it for you. Just give me the room.
DTD: That’s amazing.
IT: So, I got the room for free. So, there was no cost involved. I just brought my games. I asked my friends to bring games, yes. No paying for anything. Free entrance.
DTD: Wow.
IT: And so, this is how I have the system. And then I will say, “Hey, guys, in your city – do the same in your city. Do the same in your city. Gather again. Free entrance. And these conventions start popping up like crazy in Poland.
DTD: And more of them happened?
IT: Yeah, in Krakow, in Wrocław, in Warsaw. It was now in all different cities, and all have the same formula. Free entrance, a library of games, and volunteers who teach because we need to promote this hobby. We need to teach the new people.
We still have a need for people to teach games at conventions. There is nothing better to break the social barrier and get people more invited. People who are taught a game well tend to then go ahead and teach more people.
DTD: Wow.
IT: And that’s… It exploded. But the amazing thing that we achieved was that because of this initial formula of this conversation, that their whole families were coming. Because for them it was a weekend event – father and the mother and two kids, coming to the convention. Whole families playing. It was amazing. Because for the first time when I came to the Gen Con, I was super surprised only geeks. So Polish conventions, the whole family – the grandfather and children playing board games. Like a family event.
DTD: More like Essen.
While Gen Con has a reputation for business, networking, and new US game releass, the convention itself is a little daunting for new attendees. It is more difficult to play games or have a family day at Gen Con than it is for Essen Spiel – a true fair known for family attendance and all ages fun.
IT: Yeah. In Gen Con I see, if there is some random woman with the children, who wants to learn about games, she see only geek guys. They look real… like she will not come into this.
DTD: No. The parents don’t want to go.
IT: My conventions were very family friendly. So when you now look at the pictures from the Polish conventions, the whole society, Everybody’s playing board games.
DTD: That’s great.
IT: And that was from the super easy, actually how the hobby grows.
DTD: So, when you started building these conventions, were you already selling games?
IT: No, no, no.
DTD: This is before you…
Portal Games as a business started by publishing role playing books. It was not until that fated Krakon convention, when Ignacy nailed his board game reformation “Machina” to the bulletin board, that board games became a possibility.
IT: It was just me being passionate about board games, and then saying, “OK it may be important for the future. Let’s keep building them. Let’s make them bigger and bigger and bigger.”
DTD: It only takes one person. Wow.
IT: Yes, Yeah, that’s what I believe. And I know what happened. There was me, owner of the Rebel, and owner of the Galakta. Three of us created the whole freaking market.
DTD: And were you three friendly? Did you…?
IT: We get to know during the conventions, but before that, no. I didn’t know them before.
DTD: OK.
IT: But we all, we understood that we can do it. You do your job. I do my job. I do my job. And we push, and we play in one team. This is a coop game. We create the industry. And then new people joined. And new companies started showing up, and it was growing, growing, growing and… We are the third biggest market in Europe. Out of nothing.
Poland is famously the third biggest market for board games behind the US and Germany.
DTD: Wow. I am really… I know! I am… Today, I’m so surprised at how many big board game companies are in Poland. It’s almost, you know, almost assumed. It’s going to be the US or Germany or Poland.
IT: And this… 20 years ago, there was no board games whatsoever. It’s insane.
DTD: Wow. So, do you have time to play any games anymore?
IT: I play. I play.
DTD: You play a lot?
IT: My wife is a gamer.
And additionally, she is the nicest person around. Much nicer than Ignacy. I’m sure he will agree.
DTD: That’s nice.
IT: So, we play during the weekends and in the week, during the week, I also play. So yeah, I play a lot. Sometimes for the work, when we check the samples, but also for the pleasure. So yes. I still have it. I still enjoy it.
DTD: That’s really good to hear.
IT: It is. It is important that I’m not tired of them. No, no, no. But I have my hobby inside the hobby. So, for example, I love GMT Games.
GMT Games are known for more involved wargames, including classic cardboard chit style titles, such as Advanced Squad Leader.
Additional fact – the company is named after the initials of its founders, Gene Billingsley, Mike Crane, and Terry R Shrum.
DTD: Ok. Yeah.
IT: I think this is different. Like this is not just our industry, this is different. They have this P500 system that is completely different from ours.
The P500 system in short is way to print and publish small amounts of niche board games. Customers can vote from a list of potential games, and when demand/votes reaches 500, the game can be published.
DTD: OK. Yeah. And to me, they feel like the games that were hard to find in the 1980’s in the US.
IT: Yeah. So old school, and I am enjoying this old school-ness of GMT. So, I’m part of the newsletter. I’m reading this newsletter and enjoying it as a customer. I’m supporting them on P500.
DTD: That’s great. I love the system, the idea of “We’re only going to print a few.”
IT: Yeah, yeah.
DTD: And so few people do that anymore.
IT: So, it is me being happy, happy. A little fun in this hobby, enjoying these little gems.
DTD: Wow. I know so many designers that, anytime they have time to play games, they feel like they have to play their own. They have to playtest, and they have to work on their own designs.
IT: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it is important to play test, but it is important to know what’s happening, to grow your talent, grow your skillset, and know what others are doing.
DTD: Oh yeah.
IT: I know that Reiner Knizia said that he never plays…
Reiner Knizia is perhaps the most prolific board game designer. He has over 700 games listed on BGG.
DTD: I was just going to say that…
IT: But I’m not sure if this is true. I don’t believe it. But I know he said it.
DTD: I’ve heard that he does not play games. And he still does not, just so he can tell people. But he has a team of people who play everything.
IT: And they brief him, right?
This story has been going around for a long time. Reiner Knizia has stated that he does not play other people’s games, in order to keep his mind fresh for new ideas. However, he does emply a team of people who do play other games. And several of Reiner’s games do use mechanisms previously employed elsewhere in the industry, such as … Oh, I get to that later.
Reiner – call me. Let’s do lunch. I would love to do an interview and settle this.
DTD: And they tell him. Because that’s the most believable thing.
IT: Yeah, because he did this amazing, and I love it, My City.
DTD: Yep.
My City is Reiner Knizia’s first Legacy Game. Which he somehow came up with without playing any legacy games. And it is a very good game, and was nominated for Spiel des Jahres in 2020.
IT: This is a legacy game. If he doesn’t play games, he would not know about legacy games. Come on, like…
DTD: I know. And there was [The Quest for] El Dorado, was a deck building game. And if he didn’t know about deck building games… It’s all true. I… Yeah, I would love to ask him that. [laughs] But I know everybody does. I’ve actually heard… There’s some people who want to not play many games, so that they can have original ideas. And some people want to play everything so that they can take the best pieces.
Yup. Thats the one. That’s what everyone cites as evidence Reiner must play other games. And Quest for El Dorado was nominated for Spiel des Jahres in 2017.
IT: I play, and I make notes. So, if I like something in a game, I make a note to myself. I have a notebook with different ideas, so I’m. comfortable stealing ideas from other games, because I appreciate that is a great solution. I’m taking it to my game. So yes, I want to.
DTD: No, it’s hard to think of a game that’s really original.
IT: Yeah.
DTD: Maybe I’ve played too many games. But everything I play, I see a piece of this, and I see a piece of that, and I…
IT: There is a closed set of tools and we are just mixing these tools. Remixing.
Several people, including myself, have described the evolution of board game design to includie new ideas, new mechanisms, new genres, and now hybridization between genres and mechanisms.
DTD: Yeah. Every once in a while a new tool comes up, and it’s very exciting.
IT: A big revolution.
DTD: If it works. Like deck building, I think was revolutionary. Deck building showed up everywhere. And right now it feels like everybody’s trying to take trick taking, and put it everywhere.
IT: There’s a ton of these games.
DTD: And mixing the mechanisms. Everybody wants to make a hybrid game of deck building and worker placement, or worker placement and… yeah. So, which games right now are really impressing you?
IT: The one that was… That I played the lady, that we played like 10 times in a row. Was Planet Unknown.
DTD: That’s really good.
IT: It’s so simple, and all these planets are different, and all these corporations are different. I will, “Oh let’s play one more time with a different planet.” And the mechanisms are very simple. Just put the tile, adjust the track. Like, I applaud the designer. And we played with my wife so many times, again and again and again.
DTD: And it really blew up. I saw it for the first time at GAMA. And I had not heard of it at all, and it just came out of nowhere. I still haven’t played it.
I believe I first saw it at the ill fated GAMA 2020 expo, right before the pandemic hit. I was very impressed by the title from designers Ryan Lambert and Adam Rehberg. I played it soon after this interview and it did not disappoint.
Planet Unknown went on to be nominated for the Kennerspiel des Jahres in 2023.
IT: It’s, it’s really good. It’s fast. Yeah.
DTD: I’ve heard only good things about it.
IT: Yeah, it really is good.
DTD: So, I was at GAMA. And I was actually texting Ode [Andreas Odendahl] and showed him a picture and he lost his mind. “You need to get one. You need to have one. You need to get one!” [laughs]
Ode is a good friend and the designer of La Granja and Cooper Island. Someone should interview that guy.
IT: It’s really good. Yeah.
Come back next time for more talk about Dune, Batman, and of course the sweet torture that is a first game of Robinson Crusoe.