Welcome to another from the lost archives of dinners with Corey. Back in July of 2022, during Dice Tower East, when we thought the world was going back to normal, I was fortunate enough to corner one Ignacy Trzewiczek, founder of Portal Games, designer of Robinson Crusoe, Imperial Settlers, and many more. Before you ask – yes, I can pronounce it (badly), and yes, I have to copy and paste the spelling every time. This interview is two years in the making, mostly due to my gnat like attention span, but since then Ignacy has become a good friend, as well as a co-host on Board Games Insider (shameless plug). I still find Ignacy’s stories amazing, timeless, and a unique insight into how to truly create a board game culture.

IT: See people laughing and enjoying. The place is very nice for me, yeah.

DTD: I’m going to record if that’s OK.

IT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DTD: I’ve actually heard from a lot of people who have been to your talks in Poland…

Ignacy does speak with a thick Polish accent, which I cannot help but hear every time I read these words. The point is, some of the nonstandard wording in this interview is truly how he speaks, which adds character. Some may be an inability on my part to understand something. Either way, I own it fully.

IT: OK?

DTD: And they just, they usually tell me, “I’m so sorry you can’t hear him talk in Polish, because…” I guess the…

IT: It’s so much easier to talk jokes and anecdotes if you are comfortable with the language.

DTD: Exactly!

IT: Like for me, telling a joke in English is super, super difficult. Because it is like, “Bam bam bam…” So, they are much more funny, obviously, but yeah.

DTD: Well, that’s what everybody tells me, is that your jokes are great, and that your talks are great. You know, makes me want to learn Polish. But I have too much of an attachment to vowels.

I have heard from MANY native speakers that Ignacy has the best, most evil sense of humor. I believe it, because honestly in English, it’s still pretty darn sharp.

IT: But yeah, I remember that my first seminar at Gen Con, I was super stressed out. But it went quite smooth. And I said, “I can do it.” It’s not as good as in college, but I can do it. I saw people engaged, and laugh at some point. So, I said this. I can be a Slavic speaker at the conventions.

Ignacy often pushes Stephen Buonocore and I to add more “Slavic elements” to our podcast, which according to him, involves frugality, tea, and potatoes.

DTD: [laughs] I really enjoyed… You gave a talk about… At Gen Con, you gave a talk about the early days, and Portal [Games] getting started.

IT: Yeah.

DTD: I still remember, I thought it was great. We’re just crossing to the main registration building, so I made a reservation at the steakhouse over there, for this… so.

We are dining at the Venetian Chop House within the Caribe Royale Resort in Orlando, Florida.

IT: OK, OK. And Stephen [Buonocore], he’s coming, or not?

DTD: I don’t think so. I think he’s got his dinner with Zev [Shlasinger] today, so.

IT: OK. Yeah, they’re big friends, yeah.

Background – Stephen Buonocore and I were good friends. Still now, actually. I had Stephen convince Ignacy to do this interview, since at this point I didn’t know him well, while Stephen and Ignacy had done Board Game Insider together for a few years. Zev Shlasinger, original founder of Z-Man Games and then Head of Board Game Operations at WizKids, had been friends with Stephen forever.

DTD: They have a scheduled dinner every time.

IT: Yeah, yeah.

DTD: So… I appreciate it a lot. Thank you so much for doing this, I know…

IT: No, no, no. This is you inviting me for food. Come on.

DTD: I don’t know.

IT: This car, these cars in America. Insane. In Poland, we don’t have such big cars.

Ignacy and I are outside, walking across the resort towards the restaurant.

DTD: Well, did you get to ride in Stephen’s car?

Stephen had recently purchased a bright yellow Corvette. Somehow, it fit.

IT: [laughing] No, no, not yet.

DTD: Every time I walk by it, I just take a picture of me leaning on it and touching it. I send him the pictures and he gets angry.

IT: [laughs] But we have important sports cars. Yes, because we like a fast car.

DTD: Sure.

IT: But these big baby? No. This is insane. We don’t have such a cars in Poland.

DTD: Yeah, there’s no good reason for that. I just got a Tesla, so I’m trying the electric car, and…

IT: Eric Green has a Tesla. He was telling me that it’s so good car, that he’s so happy with.

DTD: I love it. Absolutely. I’m actually going to drive from California to Gen Con.

IT: OK.

DTD: And it’s a long drive [laughs].

I actually did drive to Gen Con in 2022 with my friend Mark Streed. It took about 4 days. We saw the largest ketchup bottle in the world.

IT: How long does this take?

DTD: It’s about two thirds of the way [across the US]. So, looking forward to that. Well, that was really… I really enjoyed that. So things are going good. It sounds like everything is moving at Portal [Games]. I’m really excited.

IT: Yeah, we get… The COVID, the COVID time was very difficult for the whole planet. The whole humans.

DTD: Of course.

This is July 2022. We thought we were done. Note to future Corey – in a week, you catch said virus and spend a week in Orlando ordering amazing room service.

IT: For the industry, was good as well. Very good. So we were able to hire more people to bring more talent to the company. So now we have 40 people full time working in Poland. And the company grew. As I said, it is difficult for everyone, and I’m not super proud that the company was growing in the difficult times, but well… It was happening. People were sitting at home playing board games. And we were seeing more and more board games, and I was investing in the company.

There were various reports at this time of board games and jigsaw puzzles having a boom in sales.

DTD: Good.

IT: Hiring more and more people. Because if you have talent in the company, the company will grow. Like, people grow the company. This is my thinking.

DTD: Correct me if I’m wrong, but Portal has a much bigger business in Poland. Distributing other people’s games, not just your own.

IT: Yeah.

DTD: So, is that the majority of what’s going on at Portal in Portland?

IT: In Poland, we are releasing like 50 games a year.

DTD: Yeah, I looked at the website, and it really surprised me how much. I had no idea.

IT: And we are, we are major players for the gamers’ game. So like Asmodee Poland is bigger, obviously. Because, Asmodee. But they do these simpler games. And for the gamers’ games, Portal is the main publisher in Poland. And we are very strong with the marketing in Poland, because I can do vlogs, I can go to conventions. So like, people recognize our company very well in Poland.

Asmodee, of couse, is a large group of board game companies, possibly the largest. Asmodee acquired Rebel Studio in 2018 to become Asmodee Poland.

DTD: So was getting… like, getting Gutenberg. Was that just the same sort of thing? It was almost an extension of what you’re already doing in Poland.

IT: Yep. Yeah, it was super simple, yeah. And we have a very good relationship with GRANNA. They know us for years. They trust us. So it was as… We can bring Gutenberg to America, and we will do it good. OK, let’s sign – There was no negotiation. Like, they trust me. They know me for years.

GRANNA has been a publisher and manufacturer of board games in Poland since 1991. They are famous for producing Superfarmer, a family favorite game in Poland since 1943.

DTD: And it was so fast. I remember being so excited about Gutenberg from GRANNA when I saw it. And I thought, “Ohh, it’s going to be so hard to get this. I didn’t get it shipped over.” And it was only weeks.

IT: Yeah, yeah. We reach them, we can do it for you… And they know me. So, they will know, no need to put some special offer. Like, “Yes, let’s go sign it. Discuss the price and go.”

DTD: Oh yeah. And I have to tell you, because of that, I’m excited about Brazil [Imperial].

IT: The game is very legit. Very good.

Brazil Imperial and Gutenberg were two of the hot titles around Dice Tower East 2022.

DTD: So, I have not actually heard anything about Brazil [Imperial] before you announced about it.

IT: Yeah. OK. Yeah. Because, so they had the Kickstarter, but it was small company. So, it was successful for them, but it was not 10,000 backers. It was like 3000 backers. But the game was raised in full in Poland. We played Polish version of the game. And said, “This is a very good game.” Let’s reach these fresh young people.

There was a crowdfunding campaign for the German version of Brazil: Imperial on Spieleschmiede in June 2021, which raised €21,862.

DTD: “We want to do it.”

IT: Yeah. And they say, “yeah, we know Portal Games. We like Robinson Crusoe.” So, it helps. It helps in some situations that people recognize Robinson Crusoe, recognize me, trust me. I have a good reputation. I never failed anyone.

Host: Hello.

IT: Hello

DTD: Two. Corey Thompson.

Host: Thanks. Right there, we got 6:45 outside.

DTD: Oh, I’m sorry about that. Probably my fault. [we were late]

Probably completely my fault. Although Ignacy had recently gotten to the convention, and was likely pretty jet lagged.

Host: It’s OK. I have you in, though.

DTD: Thank you so much.

Host: OK, I have I have you. I have you, and let’s get you seated right now.

DTD: Oh, thank you.

Host: Let’s get you seated outside. And does anyone have any food allergies in the party?

DTD: Not Me. [to Ignacy] Have you eaten here before?

IT: No, I don’t think so.

The Venetian Chop House is centrally located within the Caribe Royale complex, very close to the convention area.

DTD: I know you’ve been to several Dice Tower Cons.

IT: Yeah, but always somebody was taking me somewhere – I just need to show you this.

DTD: “Let me drive you to the Brazilian steakhouse.”

The waiter made some wonderful introductions and handed out menus.

DTD: Yes, I like it. I was really surprised. It was very good.

Host: Take a seat anywhere you want.

DTD: Thank  you.

IT: Perfect.

Host: So welcome in. Thank you for coming to the Venetian. Here we have your cocktail book along with wine by the glass. And by the bottle if anybody is interested here.

DTD: Thank you. Sure.

Host: We do have regular beverages inside the smaller book, if anybody likes to just look at that. And we have our two menus that we will bring out right now that light up. They’re very nice to look at.

DTD: [laughs] Oh man.

I CANNOT wait for the light up menus. Nothing stirs my appetite like unnecessary illumination.

Host: You are going to be like, “Oh my goodness! what is this?”

DTD: [laughs]

Host: And we will have Mr. Mario will be your server. OK?

DTD: Thank you so much.

IT: Thank you.

DTD: [picking up wine list] Oh, I have to look. I mean, Stephen probably told you, I have a house in Napa Valley. So, it’s… I like wine. So, do you drink at all?

IT: OK. I drink tea, and I… Everyone, everyone knows me jokes that I’m like a kid. I like cookies, tea, juices like. I never grow up.

There are much worse things to aspire to. Ignacy has actually created a fan base that brings him cookies at conventions. The pictures I have seen of his cookie tributes are awe inspiring.

DTD: But do you dip your cookie in your tea?

IT: Sometimes yes, sometimes yes.

Nielle: Hi, how are you tonight? Welcome to Venetian Chop. My name is Nielle, I have some water tonight. So we got bottles of water, we got house waters as well. Which one do you prefer?

DTD: Just house water is fine with me.

Nielle: For both?

IT: Yeah.

DTD: Actually, I think Stephen brought a bunch of wine. So…

Stephen Buonocore visited me in Napa Valley right around Dice Tower East, and had developed a very strong interest in some better wines…

IT: Here?

DTD: Oh yeah, I bet he… So, I might wait. And then just see what he brought. And just… I’ll drink his wine. [laughs]

IT: Yeah, you’re right. Because when he was giving me your cookies, cookies from you. He was complaining that he had the wine and the cookies, and he had not enough space.

DTD: Yes.

Oh, yeah. I also paid tribute to Ignacy with the fruit of the cookie. I delivered some very good cookies from Taylor Chip Cookies of Intercourse, Pennsylvania. Not a joke.

Note – I will accept cookies as bribes.

IT: I said, “Thank you for the cookies. I appreciate you find that space in your luggage.” You’re right.

Our carefully hand crafted and artisanal (not artesian) waters were delicately delivered to the table.

DTD: Thank you.

Nielle: You’re welcome. And your menus are coming in a few minutes.

DTD: Yeah, those cookies were insane. I hope you enjoyed them, they are… You can’t eat more than two of them or it will really hurt.

IT: And I haven’t, I haven’t eaten them yet, because now I’m finishing the package from Jonathan. Because Jonathan gave me first. So I’m finishing Jonathan package, and your cookies probably tomorrow in the morning. In the evening, you’ll be…

DTD: [laughs] Don’t even worry. It’s… I know it’s over the top. It’s…

IT: But I put them in the fridge, so they are fine. And this is ridiculous. And my wife is very angry with me about that. because “Ignacy, this is ridiculous. You are embarrassing the family. You are bringing all these cookies for the convention.” I said, “No, it’s good.”

DTD: [laughs] You have a reputation now.

Like I said, his followers know the accepted sacrifice.

IT: Yeah, they’re looking for the cookies for me, to surprise me. I think it’s good. For them. And I have cookies. Is good. “No no. You are embarrassing me…” [laughs]

DTD: Mine is purely a bribe. I mean, I am a fan, but the cookies were a bribe.

Perfectly legal in 47 states.

IT: I appreciate. I appreciate that. So when you, when you record that… And then you type it by hand or you have some software to do it?

DTD: I use both.

Specifically for this interview, I used an AI transcription pass first. Which was completely befuddled by Ignacy’s accent. So most of this interview was typed by hand. I would love to say it took 2 years, but in all honesty it took a few weeks. My mental fortitude took two years.

IT: Because no software will understand me.

DTD: Oh, mine will.

Hubris.

IT: Yeah?

DTD: I have some connections.

Arrogance and Hubris.

IT: OK. Because I remember when I was doing a vlog a few years back, and YouTube was giving automatic subtitles to me. It was ridiculous. Could not understand what I was talking…

DTD: I know. I actually, I have some sources that know how to do some European accents, Yeah

IT: That’s cool, that’s cool.

DTD: I did Uwe Rosenberg a few years ago.

IT: OK.

For the Uwe Rosenberg interview, I hired a service to do the transcription of English (with accent), then I hired a friend to transcribe the German. Thank you Uli.

DTD: And I discovered that if I speak 85% German, and he speaks 85% English, it means we cannot understand each other at all. The math does not work.

IT: OK, yes. [laughs]

DTD: So, I had a translator at that one.

IT: Yeah?

DTD: I did. It was in Essen, so it was easy to find a translator. But I had dinner with Friedemann Friese, and I had dinner with Ode Odendahl, so…

IT: OK.

DTD: So… My software can handle it OK. And if not, I’m retired. I have a lot of time. And I enjoy it.

Apparently German accents are easier for me to overcome in transcription than Polish. Must be the lack of vowels.

IT: So what were you doing before retirement? What was your job?

DTD: I’ve done a little bit of everything. So, I was academic. I was a PhD in neuroscience at Yale.

IT: Wow. Serious now. Oh my God.

DTD: And I was a veterinarian. And a little bit of computer stuff. So, yeah, my family did a lot of computer stuff. So, growing up, we always had… we had everything.

IT: OK.

Time to take command. After all, this is my interview of Ignacy Trzewiczek. Not his interview of me.

DTD: So how did you get started in all this? I’m… I’m cheating. I’m acting like I don’t know. I heard your talk about it. But I want to hear, you know, what made you start designing, and…

IT: Yeah. So, my father had a very big company that was doing in Environment Protection, whatever. Ecology.

I believe the full name of the company is ZAKLAD USLUGOWO PRODUKCYJNY TWK MAREK TRZEWICZEK LUDWIK WILUS

DTD: OK.

IT: And I was in the high school. I had no clue what to do. I was playing games in the high school so to the college… I went to the college that was with these… all the Environment Protection. So, I would take over the company of my father, basically.

DTD: It was assumed.

IT: And after four years of this college, and one year left, I said, “Oh my God, I’ll be actually running my dad’s company, and it’s not fun. It’s not interesting. I don’t want to do it.” And so close to it. He would hire me, like some position. And prepare me to take over the company.

DTD: Right.

IT: So, I went to my Dad and said, “Dad. I want to drop the college. I’m not feeling it. I don’t understand it. I have a terrible grade. I have no clue what I’m doing in this college. I want to start a game company. I know games.” And my dad said, “OK.” And I would be grateful to the end of my life, because it was so against everything that was prepared in the family, yes?

That is an amazing father. It is certainly a shame games did work out for young Ignacy.

DTD: I understand, yeah.

IT: And he had guts to give me this freedom. So, I decided with him that I will take a one year break from the college. So I didn’t drop the college, because in Poland you can take one year of vacation from the college, and then you have to go back to the college. And I said to my… My father said, “Take one year break, start the thing that you are doing. And after a year we will decide. If you go back to the college, or the company actually works.” And I never came back to the college.

DTD: That’s awesome.

Waiter: So, allow me to… I know you’ve been talking, so…

DTD: Oh, thank you.

Waiter: Now for your beverage cocktail, anything of interest?

DTD: I think I’m gonna stick to the water.

Which, I believe, is also “of interest”. My mind reels thinking of potable liquids “of interest”.

Waiter: Water is fine. I’ll get these. Any allergies I need to be aware of?

DTD: Not from me…

Waiter: How about you, sir?

DTD: No allergies, right?

IT: No, no.

The menu was a digital, light up affair. However, on second look it was a paper menu mounted on what looked to me like an X-Ray viewing light box.

IT: Ohh. Why is it so, so… light? This is an iPad?

DTD: I think it’s just a light and paper.

IT: This is, this is cool.

DTD: It’s interesting. I, yeah, I… Don’t know what to do about it.

IT: In these days, you immediately want to click it, right? How you react, right? “Oh, it’s a Kindle…”

I won’t say I did not try to click my sheet of illuminated paper. And it was pretty evident someone before me tried as well.

DTD: I know. Someone clicked my screen too hard. It’s got a tear in it. I’m going to take a few pictures, I hope you don’t mind?

IT: No, no, no. Absolutely.

DTD: I remember, the last time I was here, we got… We got a few different side dishes and just shared them around, and they were very good.

IT: OK, sounds like a good plan.

DTD: Yeah. And I won’t lie, I’m hungry. I think I forgot to eat today.

IT: [laughs]

DTD: Looks good. Well, I understand completely, actually. My father was very heavily in computers. And I was raised with them. I had them all the time. And I think it was assumed I would also go into computers, but I could not imagine competing with my father.

Computers were always a normal part of life. And being a laid back hippie child, I could not conceive of a career doing normal everyday things. Like computers and programming.

IT: Yep. OK, OK.

DTD: It’s… You have a background in computers at all?

IT: It’s just like, playing with computers. But not working, no.

DTD: My father created a couple systems that got very, very famous. He created Unix and he created C in the 60s.

I get in trouble for this a lot. My father created the language “bon”, named after my mother, for early versions of UNIX. This was modified to B, which then became C. C is officially credited to Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan.

IT: OK. Oh my.

DTD: In the 1960s. So we always had a computer. And I used it from when I was 4.

IT: OK. As a kid yes.

DTD: They tested the systems by letting the kids play with them. So I had high level Unix access from a very young age. Just playing games. It’s all I did.

I literally have no memories early enough, in which I did not type at a keyboard. I had access to UNIX from about the age of 3 or 4.

IT: Oh.

DTD: But I couldn’t imagine…

IT: You doing that?

DTD: Doing it for a living, and it was a… I had a lot of trouble telling him that. But then I went into biology and I became, I became a veterinarian instead. It’s about as far away as I could get. But now, things have worked out well, and I’ve retired. And I play, you know. I write for Dice Tower. I play games.

IT: It worked for me as well, so kudos to our fathers, right?

DTD: Yes, to understanding fathers, so… So, you played games a lot when you were younger, it sounds like.

IT: So, this is… This is… In Poland, we didn’t have the games scene in 70s or 80s, like there was communism that…

Yeah. Communism. That. Everyone’s childhood hindrance. Seriously, Poland broke from communism with its first democratic election since 1920 in 1991. The last post-Soviet troops left Poland in September 1993.

DTD: I don’t think we had it, either [a games scene]. You could find games, but they were hard to find.

IT: At the least, possible to find, yes.

DTD: I agree, not as hard as Poland!

IT: So, in 1993, there is a foundation of the magazine about role playing games.

DTD: OK.

Come back next time for more Polish history lessons, wherein Ignacy learns to publish games, but first must create an industry. From scratch.