Welcome back to the final segment of my much delayed interview with Ignacy Trzewiczek. The interview went right on time; the delay is that it took me nearly 2 years to write it up and present it in website format. And yes, I am still copy and pasting Ignacy’s last name. The food has come and gone; I ate it all. And we have just finished talking about Ignacy’s experiences at the Spiel des Jahres in 2019. So now, conversation is moving towards the current Spiel – current in 2022, that is…
DTD: Do you have a guess for this year’s Spiel, because I think it’s coming up in a week.
IT: No. I was… I thought that Savannah Park will be nominated. It was not nominated. So, I already was wrong. So right now, I don’t know.
DTD: [laughs] Yeah. I think Scout has a very good chance. It’s for the Spiel, for the simple award. I mean, there’s precedent. The Crew really made a big impact, and everybody wanted trick taking games. So, I think Scout has a good chance.
For reference, we are discussing the 2022 Spiel des Jahres awards. Nominated were Cascadia, Scout, and Top Ten with Cascadia taking the award. The Kennerspiel des Jahres nominees were Living Forest, Cryptid, and Dune: Imperium, with Living Forest winning Kennerspiel.
DTD: So, you getting tired?
IT: No, not yet, not yet.
DTD: I feel bad keeping you up, but I’m so excited to talk about this stuff.
Ignacy had literally just arrived in Florida from Poland, so this dinner was taking place at approximately 3am for my overly polite guest.
IT: No, you shouldn’t. I’ll. I’ll put you should know. It’s very nice to talk.
DTD: Well, thank you.
IT: I was stressed, but as you probably… You probably assume that once you start talking, you forget about it.
DTD: Of course.
Ignacy famously does not appreciate the nuanced experience of air travel.
IT: And now it’s very, very nice.
DTD: I’ll tell you, funny story – I had written Uwe [Rosenberg] to do a dinner. And I went to Essen, and I was very nervous. And so, I found Uwe, and I said, “Are you ready? It’s the right time. And I thought we’d go get some food.” And he said, “OK, I have 20 minutes. Give me the questions.”
IT: [laughs] Very German style!
DTD: And I said, “I don’t have any questions. I’m very lazy. I don’t prepare anything.” I said, “We just go out to eat and talk.”
IT: And talk!
DTD: And his eyes got really big. And he said, “Well, I only have 20 minutes.” And we went just to the cafeteria, the terrible cafeteria. And he talked for an hour and a half, almost two hours.
I had currywurst. It was OK.
IT: That’s good.
DTD: And it was really, it was really fun. But he had no idea. Either he had no idea, or he did not believe me. So, I mean. Yeah, I have trouble explaining what I do to designers. Nobody believes me.
“Hey, I’m Corey. Come to dinner with me while I record everything we talk about.”
IT: And that’s a very interesting way to talk with them, and not about recent delays, or upcoming Kickstarters, but…
DTD: If you want to talk about it, it’s fine. I took Eric Lang out, and we talked about politics. We talked about the things Eric Lang likes to talk about. And that’s fine.
IT: Yeah.
DTD: And all… You know, all of this is just written. So, I did that on purpose, because I thought, “Well, you know, if a designer wants to talk about a game that they’re working on, that’s not done, there’s no pictures, you know. It won’t look scary or ugly. Just tell me about it. Tell me how beautiful it is.”
It feels very meta writing about how the things I say are just written.
IT: Yeah, yeah.
DTD: [laughs] Sometimes that works.
IT: Yeah.
DTD: So, going back again, Neuroshima Hex.
IT: Yes.
DTD: It was… Now, it’s not your first game, because that was this put-together game that you had, but it was very early.
Earlier Ignacy told the story of creating a game called Machina, then pinning it on the corkboard at an impromptu board game convention around 2002. And so the Polish board game industry was born.
IT: Yep.
DTD: And it’s still going strong. It’s still… You were saying that there’s a, just a thriving?
IT: Do you know the story about making Neuroshima Hex in Poland?
DTD: I was hoping you’d tell it again, because I heard it, and I thought it was wonderful.
Yes, I was goading Ignacy into telling a story I love. If you get a chance to go to a seminar where Ignacy tells about the early days of Portal Games, go. You will not regret it.
IT: And you, you have to keep in mind that once again, there is an economic argument that Poland is a poor country, is a developing country. Yeah, trying to catch up after all these years. So, when we released a game that costed back then 65 złoty, which is like $15… It was super expensive for these young people.
Currently 65 zł is $16.85
The złoty translates literally as a masculine adjective for “golden”, and is related to the guilder. There are 100 grosz in one złoty, which is etymologically related to the groschen or the english groat.
DTD: Sure.
IT: And there is no board game industry, there is no board games culture, there’s no board gaming yet. It’s 2005. This is the beginning we just talked about.
DTD: Right.
Except for a weird homemade, black and white game some lunatic nailed to a school bullitin board a year prior…
IT: There’s no board games. People are getting, are used to playing role-playing games. That means you buy one book, and you’re done. You don’t need anything more. “And this is the board game, 65 złoty… Very expensive, and we don’t know what is this.” And we published this game, and it’s not moving. And it’s staying in our warehouse. We have it in our office.
DTD: [laughs]
IT: And what’s going on? And I remember, Michał [Oracz]… I wrote it in a book, Michał Oracz, he was coming to the office every day, seeing the stacks of this game that is not moving. And he was like, “I killed the company. We are going out of the business. My design killed the company. What have I done?” And the game is not moving. And… I’m the marketing guy.
Michał Oracz is the designer of Neuroshima Hex, and one of the original employees of Portal Games. I’m pretty sure Ignacy and Michał were Portal Games back then.
DTD: [laughs]
IT: My job is lying. My job is deception. My job is telling stories. I know, I… And this is a brand new game. We just want to promote board games in Poland. I cannot announce that it is not selling. I cannot do a clearance sale. I cannot do anything, like rash decisions, but I have to pay [bills] and I don’t have the money.
DTD: Have to pay the bills.
IT: Yeah. So, I figured out that we will do the opposite. We will do a success story, and we will say that the game is selling amazingly. And we’re just coming with a new game – it’s called Neuroshima Hex Light, and it is for two players. We unshrink the copies of the game in our office. We put the sticker Neuroshima Light. We open every single box. We remove 2 armies from the box, so this is only for two players.
The original Neuroshima Hex came with 4 armies in the box.
DTD: [laughs] Oh man!
IT: We put it in the box again, we shrink it back in our office. And we send the new sales sheet to the stores, that due to the huge success of Neuroshima Hex, we have now Neuroshima Hex for two players. It is called Neuroshima Light – Only two armies, but 35 złoty. And they started ordering for this kit, for these customers who were just role-playing gamers. 35 was an OK price. So, they started buying this game. And buying means playing. Playing means this game is freaking good. And the rumor goes, the game is very good.
DTD: Wow.
IT: And suddenly, the game moves. We sell everything. We have no Neuroshima Hex. We have no Neuroshima Light. And we have a whole stack of the armies that we were removing from the boxes.
DTD: That’s your expansion!
I am a marketing genius.
IT: Yeah, but we cannot admit that we have it. But finally, people are playing the game. People are loving the game. They’re asking for the reprint. We do another reprint. We go to the Essen, and the game explodes. And now is a major, major hit. But we were so close of going out of the business, due to Neuroshima Hex. And if I’m not there… sorry, lying. Like if I’m not just “creative success story guy”… [laughs]
DTD: [laughs]
I love Ignacy’s full brazen acceptance that marketing is lying.
IT: Because if I announced a clearance sale, you know, we just would have sold out, and that’s it. Because if you are doing a clearance sale, that means that your title sucks. And we would not be able to reprint and make a success story.
DTD: Yeah.
Breaking news – Dice Tower Dish is the most popular interview website ever, and I have absolutely no time available to take anyone out to eat ever. Don’t even call.
IT: So yes, sometimes in the marketing, you have to make up some stories.
DTD: I’m not going to believe anything you say anymore.
I still live by this.
IT: I always… My marketing team, I always go, “Guys, you’re working in a marketing team. Lie. Always, always everything is success. Everything is amazing. This is your job. Sell the success story.” “Yeah, yeah, boss. Yes, yes, yes.” But this is marketing. In marketing, you always have to show the best and hide the worst
DTD: Yeah.But wasn’t it Neuroshima Hex that you said, that you ordered a print run that you could not pay for.
IT: It was a Neuroshima role playing game.
I am again subtlely begging Ignacy to tell my favorite tall tales.
DTD: That was the original?
IT: Yeah, so there was, that was even earlier. I don’t know how it was in America, but I guess this is the same situation. I talked with Kevin Wilson once, and he told me that the role-playing game industry he was working [in], he was doing the 7th Sea role-playing game. He was doing Legend of the Five Rings in the 90’s.
DTD: Right. With FFG [Fantasy Flight Games].
Our mouths were a bit faster than our brains here. OK, while Legends of the Five Rings was eventually published by Fantasy Flight after 2015, what Kevin Wilson was working on was The Way of the Naga source book, published by L5R’s original creators, AEG [Alderac Entertainment Group]. My apologies.
IT: Yeah, there was not much money in the industry. In Poland, the same. role-playing gamers, sorry to say that, but they would buy one book and they don’t need anymore. Yeah, because they have a game master, the book, and that’s it. So, they don’t support too much company. So, I was doing this 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004. And I’m working. I’m going to work every single day. Working my ass not 8 hours, but 12 hours a day. And I’m not making any money. There is no salary. I’m working for free. I was young. I didn’t need any money, so…
DTD: You can do that when you’re young.
IT: Yeah, but basically this is like… It’s OK for a year. It’s OK for two years. It’s OK for the three years, but if it is like the fourth year in a row, 5th year in a row, and you’re rather having debts in the company than actually having your first salary… You are getting depressed, and you are feeling bad and bad and bad as Michał Oracz. We’re coming up with just all of these this crazy ideas, and nothing was catching up, nothing was selling. And at some point, I said to Michał, “Michał, we have to decide what to do, like let’s do last dance. Like one last project, either it works, either we are done.” And we did the Neuroshima Roleplaying Game.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: We wrote it in September, October, November and December. Four months, 500 page books. We were writing like demons.
DTD: Wow.
According to an RPG.net review released in May 2003, the game was 480 pages and sold for €20. Spoiler: they liked it. Tom Vasel also reviewed it in February 2008 when it was available in English.
IT: And people on the forums… It was the beginning of the forums, beginning of the Internet. So, this is Internet forums, new for all of us. So, for the first time, I’m learning about the haters, and hate in the Internet. People complaining – “Ooooh, Trzewiczek is doing a new game. He announced it will be released in the December. He wants to do it in the half of the year, he’s stupid. The game will suck.” So, I think, “I’ll show you.” And I’m writing like a demon. I get them. Michał is over, pissed off. We are writing like demons. So, we didn’t release the game in December, but we wrote, we finished the game in December, and it was released in February. And because I’m a smart, because I can always do some tricks…
DTD: [laughs]
Marketing.
IT: So, I said to Michał, “Michał, either we do a very big print run; If this is success, we earn a lot of money. If this is failure, I will not find a trick to save us. Like, it will be a company closing, our liquidation, our company taking our computers, because it will be too much. Because all the previous four years, nothing was selling, but a few copies here, going to conventions here…
DTD: Right.
IT: Always, always finding a way to go out of the trouble. And I said, “I’m tired of going out of trouble. Either is a success, or not.” And we printed 5000 copies of this game, while the average print run in Poland was 1000. So, I said “All in. Either it is a massive success, we did all the best we can do. Either I will not find a way to save us.” And we ordered 5000 copies. I had only cash, only money in my account, to pay the advance. To initiate the printing.
DTD: But not to cover the whole print run…
IT: And I have nothing in my account. They printed the books, we took them from the warehouse. We got the invoice. Date payment 14 days. I know that I don’t have this money. And we shipped to the stores. And we prayed. Basically, we prayed.
DTD: Wow.
The ultimate desperation move – printing gamnes without being able to pay for them, hoping they sell enough to keep you out of jail.
IT: And knowing today that I survived. The game caught up. And they sell, and they sell, and they sell, and they sell. And suddenly we have money, I can pay the manufacturer. We can start thinking about the reprint later. And the game becomes the most popular roleplaying game in Poland. We’re selling better than D&D, better than Call of Cthulhu, better than Warhammer roleplaying game. We were THE game in Poland.
DTD: Wow!
IT: But it was like, “Whatever happens.” Either we win. Either we are done, and I will not save us this time, because it is too much to ask parents, you know. Because sometimes I was, “Hey parents… So, give me some money.” And Michał Oracz knew this, and he accepted it. Do it that way, crazy way. Either we survive or we are done. And we survived. It’s insane. I’m not, I’m not proud of that. That I ordered stuff and I didn’t have money for that.
DTD: It’s a very bold move.
IT: Yeah. When you are young, you don’t think much.
My experience is the older don’t think much either.
DTD: You do dumb things when you’re young, but I love that story. That is…
IT: But the thing is, I say it in the seminars… There was me, Michał Oracz. Marcin Blacha, my additional writer. And the artwork was done by Tomasz Jedruszek. All of us working for free, and Tomasz Jedruszek doing artwork. And he was our friend. And we told him, “Tomasz, I don’t have money. All you can for almost free.”
The waiter has come by, making sure all is well even though my skinny eastern european companion seems to not have eaten all of his potatoes. I felt it best to pay the bill and avoid questions.
DTD: [to waiter] Thank you. I can give you that right now.
Waiter: Yes, absolutely. I’ll take care of that for you right away.
DTD: Thank you.
IT: And I told him, “Tomasz, you don’t have money, we can pay you 5 Polish złoty, which is a dollar and a half, per artwork. What can you do for that?” … “Thank you. I will do artwork for you. No worries.”
DTD: Wow!
IT: And he made super simple, super quick sketches. Like 5 złoty per sketch. Five! Now, I was nominated for Spiel des Jahres, and I’m doing Dune [House Secrets] and Batman [Everybody Lies] 20 years later. Michał Oracz is doing this Kickstarter with Awaken Realms [Etherfields], he is working at Awaken Realms. So, he’s bigger than CMoN these days, yes.
DTD: Yeah!
IT: Marcin Blacha is the head of the development of the story for CD Projekt Red. He did the Cyberpunk, and he did Witcher 3.
DTD: Wow.
IT: He was the head of the whole story for Witcher 3. And Tomasz Jedruszek is working for FFG [Fantasy Flight Games]. He did the cover for Game of Thrones, Arkham Horror [the Card Game], etcetera. So, all four of us made amazing careers. And back then we were just four dudes living our dream, and praying for success.
Such an incredibly talented group of random Polish dudes, working for pennies, hoping things will sell.
DTD: Man, I love that story.
IT: If you believe in the karma, this is like a perfect one. We were just working hard our asses, trusting each other, four of us, no money. And believing the dream, we did it. And 20 years later, each of us made amazing career in the industry.
DTD: You did things you loved to do.
IT: Yeah. And how it is possible that… Because I’m the owner of the company, I was hiring, finding these people. How on Earth I found these four people, and now they’re all making these careers. Like, how lucky I was to find this talent around me, and hire them, in a small city in Poland somewhere.
If you get to know Ignacy, or even spend some time with him over a meal, you begin to realize how these things happen.
DTD: That’s amazing. I hear similar stories from Christian Petersen, putting together Fantasy Flight, ordering things he can’t pay for, and finding people to do stuff for free.
Someone should interview that guy.
IT: Finding the right people, right?
DTD: He’s told you about the robot gorilla?
IT: Alright. No. What is that?
Christian hates this story…
DTD: Oh! So, early in Fantasy Flight, they decided they would do a Twilight Imperium role-playing game. And this was very early, and so he… Christian let his people make a role-playing game. He was not involved. But they really wanted to do it, but he gave them no budget. So they found an artist, and basically offered him 5 zloty, and said just draw whatever. And used all of it.
IT: OK. Yeah.
DTD: And one of the drawings that ended up in the book was a robot gorilla. And Christian hated the robot gorilla. And it became part of the Twilight Imperium universe.
IT: Lore!
Oh, it’s canon now.
DTD: And people ask all the time, “When are we going to get a faction with the robot gorilla?” And he just gets mad, because it was free art. And it’s…
IT: [laughs]
DTD: I found a picture of it, and I put it up online when I did my interview. And it’s… A lot of those stories sound so similar, it’s… you know.
IT: I remember. I precisely remember, I have this memory when I was, myself, taking all the boxes of the product, and going with them to the post to ship them to the retailers. Back then I was… We had the office, I was packing the product to the boxes, going with them to the car, from the car to the post office, and then shipping them to retailers. And I was doing it myself. And I am…
The waiter returned with the check, and gave a slightly disapproving glance at Ignacy’s still tuber laden bowl.
DTD: [check is back] Thank you so much.
Waiter: My pleasure.
IT: Thank you. Thank you. As you can see, your readers cannot see me, but they may see pictures. I’m not a very strong person. I’m not strong. So, me, you know, having these heavy, heavy boxes… And doing it by myself. What I’m doing, this is not, this is not me. I cannot do this. But, I… There was an interview with the…
DTD: [cell phone rings] Buonocore. You wanna, do you wanna say hi?
For those counting, I believe this is the third time Stephen Buonocore has unintentionally been in one of my interviews. It only makes matters funnier that I have not been able to give Stephen Buonocore a proper interview yet.
At this time, Stephen and Ignacy were doing the Board Game Insider podcast together, and were the best of friends. Shortly after this interview, I joined BGI as a third host, and have since become good friends with Ignacy as well. Stephen had actually set up the current dinner with Ignacy, and was originally supposed to join us.
IT: Sure. [on phone] Hello, Hello. How are you Sir?
DTD: [laughs]
IT: [to phone] This is Ignacy Trzewiczek speaking, who is speaking?
Buonocore: [can hear Buonocore laughing on other end of phone] Who is this?
IT: Who is this? You don’t recognize this Slavic accent, sir?
Buonocore: Oh! It’s you. [laughs] You jerk.
DTD: [laughing] You’re calling in the middle of my interview, just so that you can be on my thing.
Buonocore: Ohh, that is funny, dude. No, I had no idea that you were still having dinner.
DTD: Yeah, we’re probably we’re just finishing up. We’re almost done.
Buonocore: Are you at the hotel?
DTD: What?
Buonocore: Are you at the hotel?
DTD: Yeah, we’re at the [Venetian] Chop House.
Buonocore: OK, because we are going to do this thing today in a little while, if you wanted to come. But don’t worry, just do your thing.
DTD: I’ll try to make it.
Buonocore: Do your thing, man. And thanks for doing that with Ignacy. That’s really cool. Take care.
DTD: [laughs] I’ll talk to you later, man.
Stephen is a caricature of a caricature. And he is one of my best friends.
IT: [laughs] And I read this interview with one of the biggest Polish book publishers, who said about his beginnings. And in this interview, he said that he was personally bringing boxes of the books to ship. And I was thinking, “I wish I would be one day as big as them, and I would have people watching…”
DTD: Wow.
IT: And now, 30 years later, 20 years later, I have 40 people in the company. I have a big company, and…
DTD: That’s so amazing. So, yeah, how…?
IT: These people who grow the companies, they have these common stories at the beginning. They work super, super hard. They have no money, and they just knew they need to pull it off. They need to fight hard, to make it. And even the… As I said, the biggest book publishing in Poland, he was making these books, and bringing them to the post by himself at the very beginning. And I was doing the same with my games.
DTD: That’s such a great story.
IT: And this shows you that, yeah, if you work hard and if, you are pushing strong you might have a chance.
DTD: I think it’s more if you do what you really like to do.
The two are probably related. If you love what you do, you are more likely to work hard at it against adversity for a long time.
IT: You have to have a strange and… To understand, you have to love it.
DTD: Oh, that’s it. I mean, it’s hard to work that hard, if you don’t love what you’re doing. It wears you down.
IT: And we were always hoping that the next project will work. “This is not selling. So, maybe this. Maybe…” We’re looking, looking. And finally, there was this Neuroshima Roleplaying Game, it clicked. And OK, we are on the right track.
DTD: So, which was… Which project do you think it was, that made Portal Games like, “OK, this is really around for a long time.”
IT: For Neuroshima role-playing game, when we released it, and it started selling, I was finally able to pay salary to Michał Oracz, so…
DTD: So that kept the company from dying.
Michał Oracz went on to do so many great titles, including Cry Havoc, Monolith Arena, and Theseus: The Dark Orbit for Portal Games. Not to mention everything he did for Awaken Realms.
IT: So, it was not money for me, but at least I could pay my colleagues. It was the first time, yes.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: Then, was the next step, when we did Neuroshima Hex, when it finally exploded and started selling, I could hire the next person. Still not much money for me, or almost nothing. But I had two employees, that I can comfortably pay them, pay their salary every month. And then next, and then next, and then next. And around Imperial Settlers in 2014…
DTD: Wow. That means…
IT: I felt, “OK, now we are safe. We are safe.”
DTD: You were stable. Wow.
Waiter: You might need this. [handing back credit card]
The waiter still had not taken away Ignacy’s bowl of potatoes.
DTD: [laughs] Thank you. Thank you. I’ll make better use of it than you.
IT: But you have to have it in… Because, the general business advice is that your company, after the first two or three years, very difficult… After three years, you start earning. This is general business, right?
DTD: But you’re talking 10 years.
IT: But I’m talking 10 years, because I was doing, I was creating the industry. So first, I had to create the industry, and then I started earning money.
It’s true. Igtnacy and Portal Games really created the Polish board game industry from almost zero. And now Poland is generally accepted as the 3rd biggest market for board games in the world.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: And this is a whole crazy story that I said to my parents – “I’m doing games. And by the way, there’s no games in Poland, but I will do it, no worries.”
DTD: You had to invent board games, before you could sell them.
IT: Yeah. So, that’s why it’s so, so, so, so, so long.
DTD: That’s crazy. Wow.
IT: I’m very proud of what I accomplished.
DTD: But that that whole time, did you have other jobs? Were you doing this on the side, were you…?
IT: I was working as a teacher, and then I was also writing for a video game magazine. They paid very good money, because video games, they have more money.
DTD: OK.
IT: So, I was hired to write role-playing game scenarios about the hot video games. So, I remember there was a Clive Barker’s Undying video game.
DTD: Yeah!
Clive Barker’s Undying was a first person horror video game published in 2002 by EA Games.
IT: I wrote a short scenario for that. I wrote a short scenario… Like, it was a mini game and scenario. It was rules and the scenario for the Red Alert.
DTD: OK.
IT: So, when in this video game magazine, there was a game of the month, the most important. I was to write something for the role-playing gamers, about that. And there was a time when there was CD’s added to the newspapers, yes?
DTD: Yeah.
IT: So, my articles were on this CD, and so I could write as much as I wanted. And they were paying me. And there was money to have some food.
DTD: Wow.
For a while it was the fad to insert a CD into magazines, containing demos, articles or even short movies.
IT: Yeah, sure.
DTD: But now Portal Games is it. Yeah, that’s amazing. Did you wanna… Do you wanna take off?
IT: Alright. Thank you, that was… fun.
DTD: I hope that wasn’t too painful.
IT: No, it was opposite from painful. It was nice to tell stories about the beginnings of Portal Games.
I love the early Portal Games stories. Ignacy and I got up from the table and started to make our way back to the main convention.
DTD: Well, I’ll be honest, I do this for me. It’s… I bribe designers into eating a dinner with me alone, just so I can chat. Just so I can talk.
IT: I appreciate that.
DTD: That was so fun. But it’s still recording just in case. Now, you can say really bad things about me. [laughs]. Ummm… That way.
IT: Thank you.
DTD: And you know, if you and your family ever want to go to Napa Valley, and to see the country, you’re always welcome.
IT: Oh, thank you. I will keep it in mind, because as you know, I have a lot of troubles when I travel. I’m very unlucky, but my wife loves travelling. So even though I’m complaining about traveling, she always has some ideas – Different versions of the world to travel. So, knowing that we have certain options, maybe sometime we will we contact you, because… Yes, I have my adventures but my wife loves to take me somewhere, yeah.
DTD: I collect toys, so I have some toys that I could show off. I’m surprised that Stephen usually tells people about when he stayed… Like, I have an Enigma Machine and other fun things.
I surround myself with many enigmas.
IT: But you blew me away, from the meeting, when you said about your father. Like, I didn’t know. Like, I know you from… How do I know you? Yes, I know you from the Convention.
DTD: From this.
IT: Yes. Yes, this is. And then you say…
DTD: I don’t usually start with that. Well, I mean, I could tell you more. My father was the World Computer Chess Champion. Most of the chess grandmasters are friends of the family and they have stayed at the house. Dad was the referee for the Deep Blue Match against Garry Kasparov.
IT: This, this is like super crazy…
DTD: Anand is a good friend of the family. Viswanathan Anand. Vishy. And so, we’re into the chess world a bunch. Do you know, do you follow chess?
IT: No, but lately we have Jan-Krzysztof [Duda] from Poland. A lot of people are now discussing chess. But I played chess just like every kid.
Jan-Krzysztof Duda is a prodigy chess grandmaster who achieved grandmaster status at age 15. He is currently ranked 18th in the world.
DTD: Well, you probably played it more than most American kids. If I talk about chess in America, nobody knows what I’m talking about.
IT: Really?
DTD: Yeah, nobody knows.
IT: It is not taught in schools?
That’s a good joke. Chess taught in American schools. That Ignacy has a great sense of humor.
DTD: No. I bet you not one person in this hotel knows who Magnus Carlsen is, or Vishy, or any of it. It’s just not done here.
Magnus Carlsen is the current reigning World Chess Champion, and has been such since 2011. As an aside, Magnus’ father and my father compared notes on how to raise “difficult children”. True story.
IT: This is for another discussion, but basically, I’m so disappointed with education in general. We still teach things that are not important in life. We don’t think things that are important in life. And we are smart enough to just have just these rule books, have just these programs, or just these schools. And we don’t do it, because… I don’t know why.
DTD: I agree.
IT: Completely different around.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: I don’t know if politicians want to have a stupid society, or whatever. Like, what is the reasoning?
DTD: I think it’s because nobody wants to change anything that’s already being done a certain way. Nobody wants to change the way it’s done.
There is a philosophy of “If it was good enough for me…” or “I had to go through it, so everyone else should, too.”
IT: And we are not preparing the children to the modern life.
DTD: No, we’re not. You want to head back, or…? I didn’t know if you had something you had to do on this side, or… I agree. I think… I mean, I went to school for much, much too long. [laughs] I went to college for almost 20 years. And I learned nothing. I learned very little.
Ignacy and I exited one of the buildings of the Caribe Royale resort in Orlando, and immediately I could hear the running water sounds of fountains and swimming pools.
IT: In my company, in Portal Games, most of my employees are people who either don’t have college whatsoever, or had some adventures, or some problems, but are smart, intelligent, ambitious. And that school was not helping them in any way, and they just struggled. And they have their success without having the school. And I have amazing people, amazing people in my team. And when you look at their CV, yes, they didn’t finish the college, so I would not hire them. No, no, no. He’s a superintelligent person. But somehow, in their lives, school disappointed them, and they changed that.
DTD: Well, you are really, really good at finding these people. Times’ proven that.
IT: Yep, Yep.
DTD: Yeah, and I’m just always impressed with what’s coming out of Portal. And I always… If a press release comes or anything, I always look at it.
IT: I appreciate it. My CEO in Poland is a guy who finished the low school, but had no networking, no family connection, had no way to find a job.
The director/COO of Portal Games in Poland is Grzegorz Polewka. Ignacy founded the company, but announced he was stepping down as CEO in January 2022 to “fully focus on game design and development”.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: And now he’s the chief of my operations and runs the whole company. He wanted to be a lawyer. But without networking, without some connections, it was impossible for him.
DTD: Yeah.
IT: And I have now this super talented, well educated person, who is running the whole company. And then I have a person who just finished the high school, and because he was from a family that he had to go to the job immediately… Very early, 18 years, and he had to work. Now he’s working in my marketing, doing an amazing job. He worked from his childhood – hardworking, intelligent. He didn’t finish college because he didn’t have opportunity, because he had to go to job for the family. But now – hard working, intelligent, devoted.
DTD: That’s sad. Wow. No, I’m. I’ve always been impressed with who you have.
IT: Yeah.
DTD: Yeah, I apologize. I’m going to stop recording now.
And after a mere two years, there is real evidence of a magnificent dinner with Ignacy Trzewiczek. It was such a pleasure and such an honor to hear all the stories first hand, to experience the birth of an entire industry through the eyes of such an intelligent human. And after the interview, I was lucky enough to stay in touch with this Slavic Superhero, and today call him przyjaciel. Even though I can’t pronounce it.