I have been fortunate enough to have dinner with Ryan Laukat, designer of Above and Below, Near and Far and many others, artist, publisher, owner of Red Raven Games. And the restaurant is magnificent – Log Haven, a little piece of woodland paradise in the canyons outside Salt Lake City, Utah. I have just met …

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In this fine episode, Jonny and I talk about area control game problems, the wide, wide world of auction games, flow state and how to run a board game development business. Plus pudding.